Fred Wilson has a great post One Thing You Don't Deed to Be an Entrepreneur: A College Degree didn't go to college) has absolutely no correlation to whether they will be a good entrepreneur or not. I don't pay attention to that part of a resume. I focus on what they've done in the work world, what they've shown they can do, and most importantly what they've done to date on that specific startup.
That is exactly what I found in my many years of running this company. This was such a strong observation that first we stopped caring about where someone went to college, then we stopped caring about whether someone even got a degree, and finally, we took the ultimate step, and started hiring kids right of high school, and train them ourselves. Each step seemed risky, even a bit radical, but in hindsight, it should have all been obvious.
Fred goes on to add:Entrepreneurs don't need degrees like lawyers and doctors do. They are
credentialed by virtue of their track record. The first startup is hard
but if they make that one work, they end up with something much better
than a college degree. They have a notch in their belt. They've got a
track record of success.
I would propose a version of the "release early" principle as regards to education: enter the real world early! There is no better teacher than real world experience. This works in software, it works in entrepreneurship, and it surely would work in law or medicine.
I have been fortunate to have known a "quack" or two in India (i.e., non-credentialed people practicing medicine). In their respective towns people knew they had no credentials to practice medicine, and there were other credentialed doctors available, still they had roaring practices because patients simply loved the care they provided. In fact, I know one case where the practice grew so popular, the "quack" hired "real" doctors to work for him, but the patients would trust the "quack" more than the real doctors.
Fred concludes:
We've been spending a lot of time lately thinking about, talking about,learning about, and looking at the whole education sector. Education is
critically important. But you don't have to go to school to be educated
and if being an entrepreneur is your goal in life, that's even more
true.
I would add that the way the cost of college education has inflated, thinking about alternatives is critically important. Simply saying, "Let the government allocate more money for education" is not the best option - in fact, that would merely perpetuate the inflation and give academia no incentives to rein in costs.
I think this is true for fields were basic knowledge is constant and timeless such as physics, chemistry, math etc. In software, everything but the very basics become irrelevant very fast.The problem with computer science degrees in India is that studends don't even know basic logic and syntax. It like an undergraduate math student not knowing how to solve "2x = 10".
It definitely depends on the degree. Medical/engineering/science are all fields that require years of study to understand the basic concepts. As an engineer, I (and many others) have struggled to teach uneducated employees the basic scientific concepts of how we work. Much of what we do requires a linear series of pre-requisites to even PASS the class. You simply can't jump into an advanced physics class straight out of highschool and expect to pass.Certain subjects require more time and head-banging than is available in the workplace.However, there are many subjects that are indeed best taught in the workplace. Fortunately, the faculty at my school was smart enough to tell us "you will learn this on the job, that is why we will gloss over it in class". They removed the academic barriers that we will face.On the other hand, you have art/marketing/business majors who really have no technical knowledge and might be A-OK without a degree.I wouldn't trust a doctor without a degree. Universities are an accumulation of the best people from the real world (yes, most professors have alot of real world experience). Also, most class work in the science fields is "hands-on" meaning that we do lab work and often help with real-world research. My degree had me touring dozens of industries, learning from professionals, networking, and spending summers doing internships which were pretty well planned out.Had I not gotten a degree I can't imagine how I would be an engineer. There is a scientific barrier that is very difficult to cross for the layman.
It definitely depends on the degree. Medical/engineering/science are all fields that require years of study to understand the basic concepts. As an engineer, I (and many others) have struggled to teach uneducated employees the basic scientific concepts of how we work. Much of what we do requires a linear series of pre-requisites to even PASS the class. You simply can't jump into an advanced physics class straight out of highschool and expect to pass.Certain subjects require more time and head-banging than is available in the workplace.However, there are many subjects that are indeed best taught in the workplace. Fortunately, the faculty at my school was smart enough to tell us "you will learn this on the job, that is why we will gloss over it in class". They removed the academic barriers that we will face.On the other hand, you have art/marketing/business majors who really have no technical knowledge and might be A-OK without a degree.I wouldn't trust a doctor without a degree. Universities are an accumulation of the best people from the real world (yes, most professors have alot of real world experience). Also, most class work in the science fields is "hands-on" meaning that we do lab work and often help with real-world research. My degree had me touring dozens of industries, learning from professionals, networking, and spending summers doing internships which were pretty well planned out.Had I not gotten a degree I can't imagine how I would be an engineer. There is a scientific barrier that is very difficult to cross for the layman.
Yes! I totally agree with you. College doesn't teach you how to start and run your own business. College teaches you to be an employee.#...
Yes! I totally agree with you. College doesn't teach you how to start and run your own business. College teaches you to be an employee.#...
We can debate the reasons, but there is no question that the median private college education actually destroys value. Here is the calculation, based on public sources.#...
We can debate the reasons, but there is no question that the median private college education actually destroys value. Here is the calculation, based on public sources.#...
The key here is education - done right, a college degree might contribute its bit within the larger realm of education. But it is just one bit and the way it is obtained in most cases has nothing to do with education. A degree may be more useful in the context of meeting good mentors/friends and feeding off each others intelligence, getting some real world context, building a network, etc. rather than just the marks or the certificate.
The key here is education - done right, a college degree might contribute its bit within the larger realm of education. But it is just one bit and the way it is obtained in most cases has nothing to do with education. A degree may be more useful in the context of meeting good mentors/friends and feeding off each others intelligence, getting some real world context, building a network, etc. rather than just the marks or the certificate.
Guys, the Education Revolution is here: UK university launches MA on the Beatles. A must for all Entreprenurs :-)
Guys, the Education Revolution is here: UK university launches MA on the Beatles. A must for all Entreprenurs :-)
arianram, consider the fact that much of today's art - whether it is painting or music or sculpture or literary works - are produced outside of the university system, often by people who never attended college. Whether you consider commercial success or critical acclaim as your yardstick, this appears to be true.Of course, *art appreciation* is taught in college. But English departments are the classic example of literary criticism totally going off the rails. I remember sitting in on some deconstruction class or another in Princeton (my motivation was that there weren't many girls in engineering!). Even so, I couldn't last more than a few days.
arianram, consider the fact that much of today's art - whether it is painting or music or sculpture or literary works - are produced outside of the university system, often by people who never attended college. Whether you consider commercial success or critical acclaim as your yardstick, this appears to be true.Of course, *art appreciation* is taught in college. But English departments are the classic example of literary criticism totally going off the rails. I remember sitting in on some deconstruction class or another in Princeton (my motivation was that there weren't many girls in engineering!). Even so, I couldn't last more than a few days.
Sridhar,
Does your theory apply only for "technical" education or even for other types - art, literature...??
Sridhar,
Does your theory apply only for "technical" education or even for other types - art, literature...??
Daniel, Couple of issues with what you said: a) Most companies cannot confine themselves to recruiting in top schools - almost by definition of what is a "top school", the vast majority of the workforce cannot come from a top school b) Obsession with credentials leads to overlooking perfectly good candidates who lack them.
Daniel, Couple of issues with what you said: a) Most companies cannot confine themselves to recruiting in top schools - almost by definition of what is a "top school", the vast majority of the workforce cannot come from a top school b) Obsession with credentials leads to overlooking perfectly good candidates who lack them.
I like Fred, but this analysis is pretty glib. "Track record" is often as much about luck as skill (cf. Fooled by Randomness, Black Swan). Our educational institutions may be inefficient and imperfect predictors of success, but they are hardly useless. I've done my share of college recruiting, and I can assure you that the concentration of talent is higher at top schools. May that's self-fulfilling because top candidates decide to attend top schools. But, from an employer's perspective, who cares?Evaluate each candidate on his or her individual merits. But if you have limited resources to recruit, it's natural to start where the talent is most concentrated. Not to mention finding graduates from schools that might even teach them something.
I like Fred, but this analysis is pretty glib. "Track record" is often as much about luck as skill (cf. Fooled by Randomness, Black Swan). Our educational institutions may be inefficient and imperfect predictors of success, but they are hardly useless. I've done my share of college recruiting, and I can assure you that the concentration of talent is higher at top schools. May that's self-fulfilling because top candidates decide to attend top schools. But, from an employer's perspective, who cares?Evaluate each candidate on his or her individual merits. But if you have limited resources to recruit, it's natural to start where the talent is most concentrated. Not to mention finding graduates from schools that might even teach them something.
"Even people who have dropped out of collges like the legendary Steve Jobs or Michael Dell advocate to have a proper education."Well, of course they would. The education system is good at stamping out a lot of workers capable of executing mundane tasks without complaint. companies like apple or dell NEED these workers who will spin like good little cogs in their place in the machine. They don't need the freethinking entrepreneurs, they already have themselves. Anyone else would just get in the way. So of course they're going to encourage people to line up and be stamped, cut or pressure molded into the forms most useful to them. why wouldn't they?
"Even people who have dropped out of collges like the legendary Steve Jobs or Michael Dell advocate to have a proper education."Well, of course they would. The education system is good at stamping out a lot of workers capable of executing mundane tasks without complaint. companies like apple or dell NEED these workers who will spin like good little cogs in their place in the machine. They don't need the freethinking entrepreneurs, they already have themselves. Anyone else would just get in the way. So of course they're going to encourage people to line up and be stamped, cut or pressure molded into the forms most useful to them. why wouldn't they?
Wah Wah Mr Jeevan
Wah Wah Mr Jeevan
First of all glad to you here - after a long
gap:-) Recession need not be that bad after all.Conclusion - 1:I don't believe it is only
entrepreneurs who don't need degrees.This is debatable.Conclusion - 2: cost of college education has
inflated, thinking about alternatives is
critically important.This I agree wholeheartedly.@Conclusion 1: With all due respect, let me start with you. You
went to IIT, one of the most "prestigious" engg.
colleges in India and then to Princeton, another
"ivy-league" college in the US. You even spent 5
years at PhD and wanted to be in teaching line.
Finally, you realized - no it is not what is
needed from life. And at the same time Software
was about to boom in India. So it was coincidence and opportunity spotting
which put you here where you are today. Above
all, moving in the academic domain initially and
staying connected with lots of smart
people opened your eyes. I am sure, your son will follow the same path if
he turns to be as talented and hardworking as you
are. Not to blame him or anybody else, because that
is how one learns and finds out what is workable
and what is not. If you say jump into the real
world as soon as possible - how soon is very
soon? I think by 10/12 years a kid knows pretty
much about the world. But will you ask him/her to
jump in? To face the real world - you need to have balls.
And that comes with certain education,
experience, understanding or predegree ...etc@Conclusion 2:Here, I agree. Cost of education (even in India)
has now reached vulgar standard. People say that
if you want to be good school you have to pay a
lot. Why???In this year at IIM-A, 25 lakhs was the highest
offer so far and people are dying even to get
that. I am even more surprised to see people who
have passed out say that work for somebody and
continue working there. The 25lakh/annum can be
made in any company if they are really the best
from India by doing their own setup. However, the
kind of money IIMs ask is just beyond reach of
many - even for the high earning people.All I am saying is - a good education gives you a
semblance in life, gets you connected with lots
of smart people and it helps you understand the
world objectively to take better decisions. You
are can NOT just wish away education. Even people
who have dropped out of collges like the
legendary Steve Jobs or Michael Dell advocate to
have a proper education.
First of all glad to you here - after a long
gap:-) Recession need not be that bad after all.Conclusion - 1:I don't believe it is only
entrepreneurs who don't need degrees.This is debatable.Conclusion - 2: cost of college education has
inflated, thinking about alternatives is
critically important.This I agree wholeheartedly.@Conclusion 1: With all due respect, let me start with you. You
went to IIT, one of the most "prestigious" engg.
colleges in India and then to Princeton, another
"ivy-league" college in the US. You even spent 5
years at PhD and wanted to be in teaching line.
Finally, you realized - no it is not what is
needed from life. And at the same time Software
was about to boom in India. So it was coincidence and opportunity spotting
which put you here where you are today. Above
all, moving in the academic domain initially and
staying connected with lots of smart
people opened your eyes. I am sure, your son will follow the same path if
he turns to be as talented and hardworking as you
are. Not to blame him or anybody else, because that
is how one learns and finds out what is workable
and what is not. If you say jump into the real
world as soon as possible - how soon is very
soon? I think by 10/12 years a kid knows pretty
much about the world. But will you ask him/her to
jump in? To face the real world - you need to have balls.
And that comes with certain education,
experience, understanding or predegree ...etc@Conclusion 2:Here, I agree. Cost of education (even in India)
has now reached vulgar standard. People say that
if you want to be good school you have to pay a
lot. Why???In this year at IIM-A, 25 lakhs was the highest
offer so far and people are dying even to get
that. I am even more surprised to see people who
have passed out say that work for somebody and
continue working there. The 25lakh/annum can be
made in any company if they are really the best
from India by doing their own setup. However, the
kind of money IIMs ask is just beyond reach of
many - even for the high earning people.All I am saying is - a good education gives you a
semblance in life, gets you connected with lots
of smart people and it helps you understand the
world objectively to take better decisions. You
are can NOT just wish away education. Even people
who have dropped out of collges like the
legendary Steve Jobs or Michael Dell advocate to
have a proper education.
I've made this comment on Fred's post, but I love the story so much, am gonna spam you with it:-)In my previous life @ a large enetrprise software company my boss was a genius of semi-god status: a technical guru with a great sense of business. He wanted to become President of the US company, which HQ in Europe would never approve, since he lacked a University Degree.So he quit, started his own consultancy, remained in the parent company's ecosystem, and grew the new business tremendously fast, until he sold it 3 years later. He then become CEO of another company, to be acquired 2 years later in a $700M deal (inflated bubble-stock), then to become President of the acquiring entity.Finally he quit, and having made around $100M in personal wealth (my guesstimate) he is now Partner in a Private Equity firm.All without a degree :-)
I've made this comment on Fred's post, but I love the story so much, am gonna spam you with it:-)In my previous life @ a large enetrprise software company my boss was a genius of semi-god status: a technical guru with a great sense of business. He wanted to become President of the US company, which HQ in Europe would never approve, since he lacked a University Degree.So he quit, started his own consultancy, remained in the parent company's ecosystem, and grew the new business tremendously fast, until he sold it 3 years later. He then become CEO of another company, to be acquired 2 years later in a $700M deal (inflated bubble-stock), then to become President of the acquiring entity.Finally he quit, and having made around $100M in personal wealth (my guesstimate) he is now Partner in a Private Equity firm.All without a degree :-)