I was recently interviewed on Fox Business News. The anchor Liz Claman told me one of the things that interested them about Zoho/AdventNet is our recruitment model. It is a subject I am passionate about -in fact, I spend about as much time on it as our products or technology. After all, AdventNet has about 700 people, and we are hiring at a steadily increasing pace, so recruitment, motivation and retention are important topics for us.
I was talking to a partner at a successful venture capital firm a few weeks ago (no we are not raising money!), and the subject turned to recruitment. I told him we don’t really value fancy degrees and famous schools. He was surprised – perhaps because of my own educational background. I asked him “Consider all the partners in your own firm and similar firms like yours, how many of them come from fairly unremarkable academic backgrounds?” I stressed that my argument was not that every partner comes from unremarkable background, but enough of them do, making academic background a poor way to screen for partners in venture capital. In fact, the reality of venture capital, as with any demanding field of human activity, is that most of what you learn you learn by doing. As the management philosopher Peter Drucker has observed, “Our most important education system is in the employees’ own organization.” Paul Graham has made similar observations about the academic backgrounds of founders of Y Combinator start-ups – in fact, Paul makes a stronger point that people coming from humbler schools seem to try harder to succeed.
The trouble has been that while most people understand, even readily accept that observation, they have trouble formalizing it, and more importantly, acting on it. In our own case, this observation dawned us slowly over the years – one of the benefits of being in business for a long time is you have the time to learn obvious things slowly.
Our company in India always faced trouble recruiting, because most college graduates, particularly from well-known colleges, would prefer big-brand-name firms. Simply out of sheer necessity, we started to disregard the kind of college a person graduated from, and the grades they obtained. In India, that task was made even easier, because much of the Indian industry is boringly conventional, and job advertisements that specify things like “Must have a minimum of 80% average in college” are fairly common (so if you got only 79%, don’t bother to apply). As a result, we get a lot of the arbitrarily-cut-off category applicants. What we found over time was that there is a lot of really good talent in that pool, which the industry had overlooked. Based on a few years of observation, we noticed that there was little or no correlation between academic performance, as measured by grades & the type of college a person attended, and their real on-the-job performance. That was a genuine surprise, particularly for me, as I grew up thinking grades really mattered.
Over time, that led us to be bolder in our search for talent. We started to ask “What if the college degree itself is not really that useful? What if we took kids after high school, train them ourselves?” I talked to a lot of people internally, and one of our product managers introduced me to his uncle, a college professor, who he thought might be interested in hearing me out. As I shared our observations on recruiting, he shared his own experience in over twenty years teaching Mathematics and later Computer Science. It turned out we shared a common passion. He joined us within a month to start our “AdventNet University” as we very imaginatively called it. This was in 2005. He went to schools around Chennai to recruit students. So as not to distract anyone from their existing plans, we waited till the school year ended, went to several schools to ask for bright students who were definitely not going to college for whatever reason (usually economic). We then called on those students and their parents, and explained our plan. We started with an initial batch of six students in 2005, who were in the age range 17 or 18.
That proved to be an outstanding success. Within 2 years, those students would become full time employees, their work performance indistinguishable from their college-educated peers. We have since expanded the program, with the latest batch of students consisting of about 20, recruited not just from Chennai but smaller towns and villages in the region.
One question that comes up often: if you don’t look at formal credentials, what do you actually look at? This is a surprisingly difficult question. In fact, doing full justice to it would take me a series of posts, and take me into some deeply philosophical territory, which I will attempt some other time. At one level, the answer is very simple (“go by gut feel, i.e use your human gift of judgment” – yeah, I know, what a cop-out), but at another, it is exceedingly hard. The difficulty comes from the simple observation: any formal rule-based system involving human beings is very easy to game and will be gamed. More on that later.
How We Recruit - On Formal Credentials vs Experience-based Education
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When I initially commented I clicked the "Notify me when new comments are added" checkbox and now each
time a comment is added I get several e-mails with the same comment.Is there any way you can remove me from that service?
Many thanks!
Excellent post Shridhar, Having been on both sides of the table, I can safely say that college education in India is largely a farce.We need to focus more on hands on training, and deep knowledge rather than grades. Recently, I created a social-sustainable venture Do It Yourself Computer Science, where students can learn CS in a hands on way, within a supportive peer community, and am already seeing a lot of success for a few courses.The entire education landscape is going through interesting changes, with Stanford Open courses, MITx being announced, etc. I am sure we will see education change for the better in times to come.
Excellent post Shridhar, Having been on both sides of the table, I can safely say that college education in India is largely a farce.We need to focus more on hands on training, and deep knowledge rather than grades. Recently, I created a social-sustainable venture Do It Yourself Computer Science, where students can learn CS in a hands on way, within a supportive peer community, and am already seeing a lot of success for a few courses.The entire education landscape is going through interesting changes, with Stanford Open courses, MITx being announced, etc. I am sure we will see education change for the better in times to come.
Thanks for the interesting article here. I think that the best factor of recruitment should be experience. Of course there are many young people with college degrees without any experience but... Everything is too easy for them now. I remember how I started my career many years ago. I had to take a career guidance test and only then I saw some perspectives. Now everything is too easy. That's why I think that people with experience are more valuable. Of course it is only my own experience.
Thanks for the interesting article here. I think that the best factor of recruitment should be experience. Of course there are many young people with college degrees without any experience but... Everything is too easy for them now. I remember how I started my career many years ago. I had to take a career guidance test and only then I saw some perspectives. Now everything is too easy. That's why I think that people with experience are more valuable. Of course it is only my own experience.
Sridhar,Many thanks for a wondeful post. A paradigm shift to the recruitment process and a major influence on the way to think of early identification of skills and nurturing talent. Easier said than done and a trend setter in the Indian context.
Sridhar,Many thanks for a wondeful post. A paradigm shift to the recruitment process and a major influence on the way to think of early identification of skills and nurturing talent. Easier said than done and a trend setter in the Indian context.
Hello Sir
Great work. Actually I love people like you involving in part of the change rather than just speaking i will do that this ,etc.
I suggest two ideas to make your idea growing faster.
Vijay tv and Actor Surya's agaram foundation select people from 100% rural area who have got very top scores in their higher secondary board exams. They evaluate them based on factors like if their house has electricity, living in patched house, whether they haev both father and mother, etc and grade them out of 100. And they select few students from them and they adopt the full graduation studying fees. But only 20 out 500 get this advantage. I think recently a guy who got 1157 out of 1200 was not able to get scholarship because the agaram foundation has only limited fundings. Many people came forward including Dr. SHiv Nadar, CEO of HCL company and they adopted 4 children. I think if you contact them you can really hunt for real hardworking students who were not able to get in to colleges because of financial support.
Another person is Mr. SARATH BABu, Ceo of FOOD KING. He is from slum and got into BITS,,pilani and did his MBA in IIM.Inspite of huge packages he got he neglected all those and started a tea order for IT companies with just RS.2000. Now he is having net worth of RS 20 crores and he is also a philanthropist and politician. he visits colleges and inspires students and help all the needy. He also supported as students as possible for his studies. If you contact him you can easily get some brilliant students.
#...
#/
www.agaram.in/May god bless people like you and bring great changes to this society.
Hello Sir
Great work. Actually I love people like you involving in part of the change rather than just speaking i will do that this ,etc.
I suggest two ideas to make your idea growing faster.
Vijay tv and Actor Surya's agaram foundation select people from 100% rural area who have got very top scores in their higher secondary board exams. They evaluate them based on factors like if their house has electricity, living in patched house, whether they haev both father and mother, etc and grade them out of 100. And they select few students from them and they adopt the full graduation studying fees. But only 20 out 500 get this advantage. I think recently a guy who got 1157 out of 1200 was not able to get scholarship because the agaram foundation has only limited fundings. Many people came forward including Dr. SHiv Nadar, CEO of HCL company and they adopted 4 children. I think if you contact them you can really hunt for real hardworking students who were not able to get in to colleges because of financial support.
Another person is Mr. SARATH BABu, Ceo of FOOD KING. He is from slum and got into BITS,,pilani and did his MBA in IIM.Inspite of huge packages he got he neglected all those and started a tea order for IT companies with just RS.2000. Now he is having net worth of RS 20 crores and he is also a philanthropist and politician. he visits colleges and inspires students and help all the needy. He also supported as students as possible for his studies. If you contact him you can easily get some brilliant students.
#...
#/
www.agaram.in/May god bless people like you and bring great changes to this society.
I have worked with many Indian graduates in I. T. As yet, I havent found one who lived up to his or her billing. The could talk the talk, but never delivered. Lots of excuses, but no pragmatic delivery. Estimates were never met, quality was poor and when cornered, they inevitably moved on to companies anew. My personal belief is that they are a complete waste of time. Give me someone who has learned on the job, or a recent USA college graduate with mid level grades and I will train him up. I dont want to work with another Indian or Indian Outsourcer. From what I read and hear, this is becoming the normal experience.
I have worked with many Indian graduates in I. T. As yet, I havent found one who lived up to his or her billing. The could talk the talk, but never delivered. Lots of excuses, but no pragmatic delivery. Estimates were never met, quality was poor and when cornered, they inevitably moved on to companies anew. My personal belief is that they are a complete waste of time. Give me someone who has learned on the job, or a recent USA college graduate with mid level grades and I will train him up. I dont want to work with another Indian or Indian Outsourcer. From what I read and hear, this is becoming the normal experience.
I've suspected this for a long time!
I've suspected this for a long time!
Where do you find the teachers for AdventNet University?
Where do you find the teachers for AdventNet University?
Where do you find the teachers for AdventNet University?
Where do you find the teachers for AdventNet University?
Wow! Zoho discovers apprenticeship very forward thinking...
Wow! Zoho discovers apprenticeship very forward thinking...
This article is interesting indeed! What he mentions here, is very similar to the age old "Apprenticeships" that have been around a very long time. Being accredited, or "having a trade" has always been an honorable achievement to have accomplished. The value of an similar apprenticeship here though, will only be realized if it can be taken for a value with another company, and accepted.
This article is interesting indeed! What he mentions here, is very similar to the age old "Apprenticeships" that have been around a very long time. Being accredited, or "having a trade" has always been an honorable achievement to have accomplished. The value of an similar apprenticeship here though, will only be realized if it can be taken for a value with another company, and accepted.
This does not suprise me at all. I have been a professional network engineer for 20 years, but I have been working with networking and programming for 30 years.I am mostly self taught, and was able to do that because I was and am passionate about information technologies. because of that, I succeed, while those that had to force themselves to learn it, struggle.After 20 years in the industry, and seeing those very same trends, I can honestly say it's an experiance driven industry, not degree driven, for knowledge is knowledge, regardless of by what means it is obtained.
This does not suprise me at all. I have been a professional network engineer for 20 years, but I have been working with networking and programming for 30 years.I am mostly self taught, and was able to do that because I was and am passionate about information technologies. because of that, I succeed, while those that had to force themselves to learn it, struggle.After 20 years in the industry, and seeing those very same trends, I can honestly say it's an experiance driven industry, not degree driven, for knowledge is knowledge, regardless of by what means it is obtained.
Dear All,
Before you all shut me down i think we need to consider this.
Before we all start jumping on the creative band wagon, one must have a firm grounding in what we have achieved (ie science, physics, literature ect).
I cant really think of anybody that know that has a grasp of physics comparable to Albert Einstein at physics but maybe my friends are just not that bright (I’m sorry to all the Dr. that know me). So maybe we do have something to learn from him!
So rather then get a 18 year old reinventing the wheel, how about we teach him about the wheel. Let him study the MASTERS that have come before him, and once he has grasped that let his creative mind forward him.
Now I’m not saying uni’s/colleges are the optimal place for this, but they do try to achieve this objective. I do admit that it comes on a personal basis, that is if you have desire to learn you will succeed in most things.
However learning specifics (programming in C#) without learning concepts (logic theories etc) will probably make you as successful as the next c# programmer however I’m sure that it will take you far longer to develop that kind of ‘thinking’ that a person has learned the learning concepts. As always there are exceptions to every rule since every human is an individual.
As a parting thought I want to put this to you
Why are the most famous Masters (men/women who have achieved greatness in their respective fields) usually students of other Master.
“Learn to crawl before you walk, walk before you run and run before you try to flyâ€BMG
A wise man learn from others mistake, having said this I’m pretty sure that T Edison said “I haven’t failed I just found a 1000 ways that it don’t workâ€.
Thanks Bart
Dear All,
Before you all shut me down i think we need to consider this.
Before we all start jumping on the creative band wagon, one must have a firm grounding in what we have achieved (ie science, physics, literature ect).
I cant really think of anybody that know that has a grasp of physics comparable to Albert Einstein at physics but maybe my friends are just not that bright (I’m sorry to all the Dr. that know me). So maybe we do have something to learn from him!
So rather then get a 18 year old reinventing the wheel, how about we teach him about the wheel. Let him study the MASTERS that have come before him, and once he has grasped that let his creative mind forward him.
Now I’m not saying uni’s/colleges are the optimal place for this, but they do try to achieve this objective. I do admit that it comes on a personal basis, that is if you have desire to learn you will succeed in most things.
However learning specifics (programming in C#) without learning concepts (logic theories etc) will probably make you as successful as the next c# programmer however I’m sure that it will take you far longer to develop that kind of ‘thinking’ that a person has learned the learning concepts. As always there are exceptions to every rule since every human is an individual.
As a parting thought I want to put this to you
Why are the most famous Masters (men/women who have achieved greatness in their respective fields) usually students of other Master.
“Learn to crawl before you walk, walk before you run and run before you try to flyâ€BMG
A wise man learn from others mistake, having said this I’m pretty sure that T Edison said “I haven’t failed I just found a 1000 ways that it don’t workâ€.
Thanks Bart
Isn't that what Indian H1-Visa people are doing that they got trained in India, then come to USA for taking over jobs?
Isn't that what Indian H1-Visa people are doing that they got trained in India, then come to USA for taking over jobs?
Is there a "bond"
associated with this
training :) how long
should one work with
you after training for
18 months
Is there a "bond"
associated with this
training :) how long
should one work with
you after training for
18 months
Excellent article. I think I missed much in college education, but the contacts, reputation etc made my world.Even though I am at a mid life crisis and in crossroads, of me getting affected by recession, certain learnings I had while moving into college from school helped.The main thing, one learns in college is life skills.It would be a nice association for anyone with Zoho, if each youngster joining there, comes out with flying colours.
Excellent article. I think I missed much in college education, but the contacts, reputation etc made my world.Even though I am at a mid life crisis and in crossroads, of me getting affected by recession, certain learnings I had while moving into college from school helped.The main thing, one learns in college is life skills.It would be a nice association for anyone with Zoho, if each youngster joining there, comes out with flying colours.
Dear Mr. Sridhar,I am delighted to know that AdventNet University;(i)recruits XII pass outs to provide IT education freely with a stipend;
(ii)trains them for 18 months in order to develop basic skills; and
(iii)employs them after successful completion of the training to work with the company’s development team.This is an innovative and unique initiative of your company No other company has attempted this initiative throughout the world. You have rightly said that there is very little or no correlation between academic performance, as measured by grades and the type of college a person attended, and their real on- the- job performance.I too strongly feel that 90% of real on-the-job performance of employees depends upon their soft skills and 10% of real on-the-job performance of employees only depends upon their academic skills. Soft skills make or mar real on-the-job performance of employees. That is why I have written two books, namely ‘Soft Skills – Volume I’ and ‘Soft Skills – Volume II’. You can think of teaching your trainees all the 66 soft skills stated below through out the training period . Soft Skills – Volume I1.Personal SWOT Analysis Applying
2.Prayer Applying Skill
3.Hidden Treasures Discovering Skill
4.Subconscious Mind Programming Skill
5.Universal Laws of the Mind Practicing Skill
6.Dominant Thinking Skill
7.Accurate Thinking Skill
8.Positive Thinking Skill
9.Equilibrium Thinking Skill
10.Possibility Thinking Skill
11.Lateral Thinking Skill
12.Self-Image-Building Skill
13.Self-Esteem-Building Skill
14.Self–Suggestion Repetition Skill
15.Creative Visualization Skill
16.Faith-Building Skill
17.Hope-Building Skill
18.Love-Building Skill
19.Optimism-Building Skill
20.Enthusiasm-Building Skill
21.Excitement-Building Skill
22.Self-Motivation- Building Skill
23.Self-Confidence-Building Skill
24.Self-Discipline Practicing Skill
25.Stress Management Skill
26.Concentration -Building Skill
27.Concentricity Practicing Skill
28.Win-Win Attitude-Building Skill
29.Appreciation Practicing Skill
30.Assertive Listening Skill
31.Wise Sayings Applying Skill
32.Emotional Intelligence Applying Skill
33.Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP) Skill Relevant Quotations Soft Skills – Volume II34.Idea Generation Skill
35.Big Dream–Building Skill
36.Written Goal-Setting Skill
37.Burning Desire-Building Skill
38.Action Commitment Skill
39.Momentum Maintaining Skill
40.“Live Today†& “Do It Now†Practicing Skill
41.Work Consciousness-Building Skill
42.Success Consciousness-Building Skill
43.Time Management Skill
44.Knowledge Applying Skill
45.Commonsense Applying Skill
46.Lifelong Learning Skill
47.Initiative-Building Skill
48.“Change†Adapting Skill
49.Failure Managing Skill
50.Persistence Practicing Skill
51.Problem-Solving Techniques Applying Skill
52.Effective Communication Skill
53.Leadership Developing Skill
54.Extra Mile Running Skill
55.“Ask†Technique Applying Skill
56.Negotiation Practicing Skill
57.Network-Building Skill
58.Mastermind Alliance-Building Skill
59.Mentoring Model Applying Skill
60.Role Model Applying Skill
61.Money-Making Habits Practicing Skill
62.Comfort Zone Breaking Skill
63.Risk-Taking Skill
64.Team –Building Skill
65.“Selling†Skill
66.ICT Applying Skill Relevant Quotations Dr. A. Peter
*********
Dear Mr. Sridhar,I am delighted to know that AdventNet University;(i)recruits XII pass outs to provide IT education freely with a stipend;
(ii)trains them for 18 months in order to develop basic skills; and
(iii)employs them after successful completion of the training to work with the company’s development team.This is an innovative and unique initiative of your company No other company has attempted this initiative throughout the world. You have rightly said that there is very little or no correlation between academic performance, as measured by grades and the type of college a person attended, and their real on- the- job performance.I too strongly feel that 90% of real on-the-job performance of employees depends upon their soft skills and 10% of real on-the-job performance of employees only depends upon their academic skills. Soft skills make or mar real on-the-job performance of employees. That is why I have written two books, namely ‘Soft Skills – Volume I’ and ‘Soft Skills – Volume II’. You can think of teaching your trainees all the 66 soft skills stated below through out the training period . Soft Skills – Volume I1.Personal SWOT Analysis Applying
2.Prayer Applying Skill
3.Hidden Treasures Discovering Skill
4.Subconscious Mind Programming Skill
5.Universal Laws of the Mind Practicing Skill
6.Dominant Thinking Skill
7.Accurate Thinking Skill
8.Positive Thinking Skill
9.Equilibrium Thinking Skill
10.Possibility Thinking Skill
11.Lateral Thinking Skill
12.Self-Image-Building Skill
13.Self-Esteem-Building Skill
14.Self–Suggestion Repetition Skill
15.Creative Visualization Skill
16.Faith-Building Skill
17.Hope-Building Skill
18.Love-Building Skill
19.Optimism-Building Skill
20.Enthusiasm-Building Skill
21.Excitement-Building Skill
22.Self-Motivation- Building Skill
23.Self-Confidence-Building Skill
24.Self-Discipline Practicing Skill
25.Stress Management Skill
26.Concentration -Building Skill
27.Concentricity Practicing Skill
28.Win-Win Attitude-Building Skill
29.Appreciation Practicing Skill
30.Assertive Listening Skill
31.Wise Sayings Applying Skill
32.Emotional Intelligence Applying Skill
33.Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP) Skill Relevant Quotations Soft Skills – Volume II34.Idea Generation Skill
35.Big Dream–Building Skill
36.Written Goal-Setting Skill
37.Burning Desire-Building Skill
38.Action Commitment Skill
39.Momentum Maintaining Skill
40.“Live Today†& “Do It Now†Practicing Skill
41.Work Consciousness-Building Skill
42.Success Consciousness-Building Skill
43.Time Management Skill
44.Knowledge Applying Skill
45.Commonsense Applying Skill
46.Lifelong Learning Skill
47.Initiative-Building Skill
48.“Change†Adapting Skill
49.Failure Managing Skill
50.Persistence Practicing Skill
51.Problem-Solving Techniques Applying Skill
52.Effective Communication Skill
53.Leadership Developing Skill
54.Extra Mile Running Skill
55.“Ask†Technique Applying Skill
56.Negotiation Practicing Skill
57.Network-Building Skill
58.Mastermind Alliance-Building Skill
59.Mentoring Model Applying Skill
60.Role Model Applying Skill
61.Money-Making Habits Practicing Skill
62.Comfort Zone Breaking Skill
63.Risk-Taking Skill
64.Team –Building Skill
65.“Selling†Skill
66.ICT Applying Skill Relevant Quotations Dr. A. Peter
*********
[...] How We Recruit - On Formal Credentials vs Experience-based Education :: Zoho Blog – surprise surprise … it seems that some companies are willing to look are practical experience as a better qualification that all the degrees a person might have. [...]
[...] How We Recruit - On Formal Credentials vs Experience-based Education :: Zoho Blog – surprise surprise … it seems that some companies are willing to look are practical experience as a better qualification that all the degrees a person might have. [...]
Hi Sridhar:I think you are sounding very ficticious here. Even Microsoft and Google will admit that they only recruit individuals with academic credentials - that is very much part of their DNA. I think your post was meant to impress the western audience which I think may not work. Not sure if you have read the recent study that concluded that salaries in the USA were primarily determined by where they went to school (known fact that if you went to a top tier school then you made more money).Lastly, if you do want to impress the western audience and fox business then talk about how Advent is making an impact on stakeholder community in Chennai. We would like to know what a world class firm like yours which is indigenous to India is doing to eradicate poverty and help its citizens achieve parity when it comes to economic success.I think that would go along way to prime up Zoho's name in the west.Regards - Anthony
Hi Sridhar:I think you are sounding very ficticious here. Even Microsoft and Google will admit that they only recruit individuals with academic credentials - that is very much part of their DNA. I think your post was meant to impress the western audience which I think may not work. Not sure if you have read the recent study that concluded that salaries in the USA were primarily determined by where they went to school (known fact that if you went to a top tier school then you made more money).Lastly, if you do want to impress the western audience and fox business then talk about how Advent is making an impact on stakeholder community in Chennai. We would like to know what a world class firm like yours which is indigenous to India is doing to eradicate poverty and help its citizens achieve parity when it comes to economic success.I think that would go along way to prime up Zoho's name in the west.Regards - Anthony
One of the goals in many kinds of university is a "liberal arts" or "general education" requirement for all students. Part of the theory is that breadth of lower-division (first two years) education enriches the student, gives core skills in thinking and communication, provides context for their vocational training, and helps them choose an upper-division specialty after being exposed to subjects outside of a narrow track.Do you envision this as part of AdventNet University? Or ongoing development once hired?
One of the goals in many kinds of university is a "liberal arts" or "general education" requirement for all students. Part of the theory is that breadth of lower-division (first two years) education enriches the student, gives core skills in thinking and communication, provides context for their vocational training, and helps them choose an upper-division specialty after being exposed to subjects outside of a narrow track.Do you envision this as part of AdventNet University? Or ongoing development once hired?
This is something which plays everywhere. Big corporations always want to hire the highest educated. Even though the job they offer is nothing special. Meanwhile the degree doesn't mean anything anymore. It's just as if you only prove as if you belong to the right club. So what you're doing in India might as well be practiced in the US and Europe. I myself have advised HR and recrtuiment people to set their sights "lower". They are too focused on the right types of degree and not on passion and commitment.
This is something which plays everywhere. Big corporations always want to hire the highest educated. Even though the job they offer is nothing special. Meanwhile the degree doesn't mean anything anymore. It's just as if you only prove as if you belong to the right club. So what you're doing in India might as well be practiced in the US and Europe. I myself have advised HR and recrtuiment people to set their sights "lower". They are too focused on the right types of degree and not on passion and commitment.
The “jail college” phenomenon...Yesterday, Zoli Erdos asked me why Yuvi Panda, the blogger from Chennai, isn’t too excited about the prospect of college in Chennai - “What’s wrong with college? Is the education too theoretical?” Trying to answer that question...
The “jail college” phenomenon...Yesterday, Zoli Erdos asked me why Yuvi Panda, the blogger from Chennai, isn’t too excited about the prospect of college in Chennai - “What’s wrong with college? Is the education too theoretical?” Trying to answer that question...
Sridhar,
Excellent post.I had seen your interview on Fox News and it went on spreading like a fire on Twitter.As you have mentioned, many people in India[especially startups] feel that having an IITian or IIM'an guy helps.And guess what the reason is "VC's in India still believe that guys who can do something are just these people" :) I have personally experienced this same situation where we talks that if a guy does not fall in that category than HE IS NOT EDUCATED AT ALL :)In fact, for any company [be it startup or a large company]; we just need people are willing to take responsibilities and try something new.At the end of the day, if a person just has a great degree but does not have the FIRE/PASSION in him/her, than (s)he should not be hired just like as Steve Jobs has told "This rotten apple will make the other better apples rotten" :)Waiting for your next article.-Himanshu Sheth
[#...]
Sridhar,
Excellent post.I had seen your interview on Fox News and it went on spreading like a fire on Twitter.As you have mentioned, many people in India[especially startups] feel that having an IITian or IIM'an guy helps.And guess what the reason is "VC's in India still believe that guys who can do something are just these people" :) I have personally experienced this same situation where we talks that if a guy does not fall in that category than HE IS NOT EDUCATED AT ALL :)In fact, for any company [be it startup or a large company]; we just need people are willing to take responsibilities and try something new.At the end of the day, if a person just has a great degree but does not have the FIRE/PASSION in him/her, than (s)he should not be hired just like as Steve Jobs has told "This rotten apple will make the other better apples rotten" :)Waiting for your next article.-Himanshu Sheth
[#...]
Sridhar,Thank you for the wonderful post. Quick question. I am not sure what "Advent University" consists of, i.e. how much you invest in educating the student/employee etc. Do you have any type of agreement or requirement that the person stay with you for xx years or owes you xx if they leave quickly? A common concern/issue, especially of small businesses is that you spend a great deal paying to send someone to special training, and they then immediately use that training to get a higher paying job somewhere else.Thanks,David
Sridhar,Thank you for the wonderful post. Quick question. I am not sure what "Advent University" consists of, i.e. how much you invest in educating the student/employee etc. Do you have any type of agreement or requirement that the person stay with you for xx years or owes you xx if they leave quickly? A common concern/issue, especially of small businesses is that you spend a great deal paying to send someone to special training, and they then immediately use that training to get a higher paying job somewhere else.Thanks,David
Sridhar,
Do you also give "social skills" training in your University? Or is the training specific to the job that they will be doing?-Swami
Sridhar,
Do you also give "social skills" training in your University? Or is the training specific to the job that they will be doing?-Swami
Thanks a lot Sridhar for the reply. And being candid enough to say that there is no crystal ball hypothesis. It is the fact, but then sometimes very destabilizing.Regards,
Jeevan
Thanks a lot Sridhar for the reply. And being candid enough to say that there is no crystal ball hypothesis. It is the fact, but then sometimes very destabilizing.Regards,
Jeevan
Jeevan,
Thanks for asking. That's a big set of questions, most of them I am not even sure I am competent to respond in any coherent way. I don't have any crystal ball - even in areas that clearly concern us, my opinion should be labeled an educated guess, not much more. Let me offer you my educated guesses on some of them.1. I think IT industry in India has expanded too fast, projecting high rates of growth (30-50%) indefinitely. That gets harder and harder as the absolute numbers increase (the numbers are already staggering), but I don't think much of the industry has internalized this. This has implications for wage growth, rate of hiring etc. Again, keep in mind this is just an educated guess. May be the next 5 years will be like the past 5 years, but I doubt it.2. The majority of colleges in India do not provide sufficient value for the 3 or 4 years a student spends with them. Since there is no perceived alternative (and employers almost ritualistically demand degrees), most students who can afford to pay the fees will attend college. So we will continue to hire college graduates. Equally, it also makes sense for us to build our alternative system, hire kids right out of school, in the hope that we can be a small part of the change that is needed. So the answer is we will do both.3. See 1 - I believe wage growth in software will flatten, because of slowing growth in the industry. Salary in other sectors will increase faster, so over time, the gap between a software engineer, and say, a mechanical engineer, will narrow. Purely an educated guess, keep in mind, not career advice.4. I have no particular insight on this.5. See 1.6. We use Java heavily, but also dabbling with other languages. In general, it is best to know multiple languages/technologies. You get better perspective that way.7. Only one advice I can offer: be very adaptable. Things keep changing, and people who adapt well and adapt quickly will prosper.Sridhar
Jeevan,
Thanks for asking. That's a big set of questions, most of them I am not even sure I am competent to respond in any coherent way. I don't have any crystal ball - even in areas that clearly concern us, my opinion should be labeled an educated guess, not much more. Let me offer you my educated guesses on some of them.1. I think IT industry in India has expanded too fast, projecting high rates of growth (30-50%) indefinitely. That gets harder and harder as the absolute numbers increase (the numbers are already staggering), but I don't think much of the industry has internalized this. This has implications for wage growth, rate of hiring etc. Again, keep in mind this is just an educated guess. May be the next 5 years will be like the past 5 years, but I doubt it.2. The majority of colleges in India do not provide sufficient value for the 3 or 4 years a student spends with them. Since there is no perceived alternative (and employers almost ritualistically demand degrees), most students who can afford to pay the fees will attend college. So we will continue to hire college graduates. Equally, it also makes sense for us to build our alternative system, hire kids right out of school, in the hope that we can be a small part of the change that is needed. So the answer is we will do both.3. See 1 - I believe wage growth in software will flatten, because of slowing growth in the industry. Salary in other sectors will increase faster, so over time, the gap between a software engineer, and say, a mechanical engineer, will narrow. Purely an educated guess, keep in mind, not career advice.4. I have no particular insight on this.5. See 1.6. We use Java heavily, but also dabbling with other languages. In general, it is best to know multiple languages/technologies. You get better perspective that way.7. Only one advice I can offer: be very adaptable. Things keep changing, and people who adapt well and adapt quickly will prosper.Sridhar
In my radio career, there were those with degrees I would not hire because what they learned in college:
was not what they needed to learn to get an entry level position,
did not apply to the work we were actually doing,
and was wrong.With no college degree, I was hired to work in the Microsoft Support division. There was a screening exam before the pre-employment interview...there was training before I was allowed to troubleshoot on my own (after which I had more experienced peers to consult with)...and there was constant ongoing training, and encouragement to continue learning (in all and any subject). It was great...
In my radio career, there were those with degrees I would not hire because what they learned in college:
was not what they needed to learn to get an entry level position,
did not apply to the work we were actually doing,
and was wrong.With no college degree, I was hired to work in the Microsoft Support division. There was a screening exam before the pre-employment interview...there was training before I was allowed to troubleshoot on my own (after which I had more experienced peers to consult with)...and there was constant ongoing training, and encouragement to continue learning (in all and any subject). It was great...
Quote:"....which could be harmful to a person who got in due to being well-coached, but thinks there is some innate brilliance that would translate into all walks of life. That assumption of innate brilliance often interferes with the hard work needed to repeat their success in the real world; it is all too tempting to attribute earlier success to brilliance than hard work."And many of them fall through later on and sometimes even during their days at IIT. They could not cope with the pressure of being there, as most of them are normally toppers from their individual villages, towns, and cities. Sridhar, coming from you, it is again a proof that hard work is what finally pays day in day out. To paraphrase some thoughts on the Myth of Sisyphus, a normal man should choose action over contemplation, being fully aware that no victory is final, no accomplishment is for ever.And as you have mentioned, poor kids are actually much more motivated, when shown the right direction. It has been proven time and again, like Kenyan long distance runners dominating the world or colored people from very poor background dominating the sprinting races. I really believe the model of AdventNet University will work wonders in a country like India. Hunger is the most powerful motivator, since time immemorial.
Quote:"....which could be harmful to a person who got in due to being well-coached, but thinks there is some innate brilliance that would translate into all walks of life. That assumption of innate brilliance often interferes with the hard work needed to repeat their success in the real world; it is all too tempting to attribute earlier success to brilliance than hard work."And many of them fall through later on and sometimes even during their days at IIT. They could not cope with the pressure of being there, as most of them are normally toppers from their individual villages, towns, and cities. Sridhar, coming from you, it is again a proof that hard work is what finally pays day in day out. To paraphrase some thoughts on the Myth of Sisyphus, a normal man should choose action over contemplation, being fully aware that no victory is final, no accomplishment is for ever.And as you have mentioned, poor kids are actually much more motivated, when shown the right direction. It has been proven time and again, like Kenyan long distance runners dominating the world or colored people from very poor background dominating the sprinting races. I really believe the model of AdventNet University will work wonders in a country like India. Hunger is the most powerful motivator, since time immemorial.
Krish,
IIT-JEE has been gamed over the years too. It still takes a ton of work, but extensive databases of past questions have created a situation where well-prepped kids can master it in a year or two. What the test proves now is that the person is capable of doing that specific kind of hard work needed to get in, at that specific age - that information is still valuable, provided we don't overload it with meaning it doesn't have. But since getting into IIT still has the connotation of "best and brightest", which could be harmful to a person who got in due to being well-coached, but thinks there is some innate brilliance that would translate into all walks of life. That assumption of innate brilliance often interferes with the hard work needed to repeat their success in the real world; it is all too tempting to attribute earlier success to brilliance than hard work. Then there are also the vast numbers of kids who are not motivated or could not afford the coaching, to go through the hoops at 16 or 17, but who are perfectly capable of doing very productive work.
Krish,
IIT-JEE has been gamed over the years too. It still takes a ton of work, but extensive databases of past questions have created a situation where well-prepped kids can master it in a year or two. What the test proves now is that the person is capable of doing that specific kind of hard work needed to get in, at that specific age - that information is still valuable, provided we don't overload it with meaning it doesn't have. But since getting into IIT still has the connotation of "best and brightest", which could be harmful to a person who got in due to being well-coached, but thinks there is some innate brilliance that would translate into all walks of life. That assumption of innate brilliance often interferes with the hard work needed to repeat their success in the real world; it is all too tempting to attribute earlier success to brilliance than hard work. Then there are also the vast numbers of kids who are not motivated or could not afford the coaching, to go through the hoops at 16 or 17, but who are perfectly capable of doing very productive work.
[...] Joking aside, Posner may be playing the court jester here, making the seemingly absurd blindingly obvious. Right now, I can’t imagine a media job that doesn’t look for at least a college education, and most knowledge jobs require college degrees. But there have always been great writers who were not conventionally educated, and many jobs seem to depend on people skills, not academic credentials. Business schools are already more about building social networks than about learning how to run a business (see Rakesh Khurana’s “From Higher Aims to Hired Hands”). Most colleges don’t just spit out ready-made employees, either. AdventNet, best-known for its Zoho Web-based applications, calls itself the anti-Google because it not only doesn’t seek to hire PhDs, it has started hiring people out of high school, and sending them to “AdventNet University” (see his post How We Recruit ). [...]
[...] Joking aside, Posner may be playing the court jester here, making the seemingly absurd blindingly obvious. Right now, I can’t imagine a media job that doesn’t look for at least a college education, and most knowledge jobs require college degrees. But there have always been great writers who were not conventionally educated, and many jobs seem to depend on people skills, not academic credentials. Business schools are already more about building social networks than about learning how to run a business (see Rakesh Khurana’s “From Higher Aims to Hired Hands”). Most colleges don’t just spit out ready-made employees, either. AdventNet, best-known for its Zoho Web-based applications, calls itself the anti-Google because it not only doesn’t seek to hire PhDs, it has started hiring people out of high school, and sending them to “AdventNet University” (see his post How We Recruit ). [...]
Sridhar,Amen to your comment on substantial "test preparation" effect. Based on my experience with fellow students at IITB, I had wondered whether IIT-JEE itself is a good screening process. I think a big chunk, not all, of the students in IITs are better off at problem solving skills than on their understanding of the basics of a subject. This becomes all the more apparent when you talk to them on basic science subjects. Add to this, how our institutions are only good at creating narrowly skilled professionals than an all round well educated person, I wouldn't rely on anything evaluation scales from our academic institutions.
Sridhar,Amen to your comment on substantial "test preparation" effect. Based on my experience with fellow students at IITB, I had wondered whether IIT-JEE itself is a good screening process. I think a big chunk, not all, of the students in IITs are better off at problem solving skills than on their understanding of the basics of a subject. This becomes all the more apparent when you talk to them on basic science subjects. Add to this, how our institutions are only good at creating narrowly skilled professionals than an all round well educated person, I wouldn't rely on anything evaluation scales from our academic institutions.
Sridhar,
sounds like a very interesting approach, a spin on a trade school perhaps, but you get to instill company values and thought processes early on, plus design your own no-nonsense curriculum.
Keep innovating!
Dan
Sridhar,
sounds like a very interesting approach, a spin on a trade school perhaps, but you get to instill company values and thought processes early on, plus design your own no-nonsense curriculum.
Keep innovating!
Dan
Sriram,
South India, particularly Tamil Nadu, has reaped the benefits of opening up of primary & secondary education. At first, primary education expanded through free lunch program in schools, initiated 40 years ago, and strengthened further 25 years ago. Then in the 80's opening up of higher education created another huge wave. On gaming of tests, actually I think there is a substantial "test preparation" effect, so you end up measuring test-taking skills.
Sriram,
South India, particularly Tamil Nadu, has reaped the benefits of opening up of primary & secondary education. At first, primary education expanded through free lunch program in schools, initiated 40 years ago, and strengthened further 25 years ago. Then in the 80's opening up of higher education created another huge wave. On gaming of tests, actually I think there is a substantial "test preparation" effect, so you end up measuring test-taking skills.
@Sriram,It is the case. And it is happening throughout especially for fresher to 1~2 yrs exp. And they very well know it. "IT majors" are definitely not stupid. But then why this recruitment case:1. As you pointed out - filter out from the large pull of applicants.Even if someone crams and clears (other than some unfair means, which is also rampant in some IT pockets - mostly based on regional preference), s/he has done the hard work. Let them get filtered.2. Now comes the interesting part.What services company do? It all started with Y2K and later some enhanced bug fixing.For that you do not need Phd holders or Masters. Actually it can be very well done by a 10th or 12th standard student, if properly trained. Here the interview it is straight from the book questions.Interestingly some "Tier I" IT companies (which I think you referred as "IT majors") also have realized it long back, and they have packages for 10th/12th/+3 std. students. I am sure for next 10 years, these people will do the work - by the time cost arbitrage vanishes.3. If you look at a manager in a Services company - his experiencbe = 15% tech knowledge + 15% process knowledge + 15% people knowledge + (50%+) political knowlegeIf the person who is recruting is basically technically not sound, and he knows that technical soundness is not of paramount importance - why waste time in that? I have had many first hand experiences like that when they recruit.And I do not believe some cities having more talented people from this. This is mega crap. Talent can come from anywhere.@Raja,Your list is very good and I guess it will be very effective. But then, I must say, when I visited your website (was inspired after reading your passage), I was disappointed. Your website itself show copyright of 2007 and it is not updated!@Sambarmuthy,You are dead on - though somewhat out of the scope of the main article. And yes, if young minds are given proper traning, a lot of children getting recruting into terror activities will be reduced.I love the discussion here :-)
@Sriram,It is the case. And it is happening throughout especially for fresher to 1~2 yrs exp. And they very well know it. "IT majors" are definitely not stupid. But then why this recruitment case:1. As you pointed out - filter out from the large pull of applicants.Even if someone crams and clears (other than some unfair means, which is also rampant in some IT pockets - mostly based on regional preference), s/he has done the hard work. Let them get filtered.2. Now comes the interesting part.What services company do? It all started with Y2K and later some enhanced bug fixing.For that you do not need Phd holders or Masters. Actually it can be very well done by a 10th or 12th standard student, if properly trained. Here the interview it is straight from the book questions.Interestingly some "Tier I" IT companies (which I think you referred as "IT majors") also have realized it long back, and they have packages for 10th/12th/+3 std. students. I am sure for next 10 years, these people will do the work - by the time cost arbitrage vanishes.3. If you look at a manager in a Services company - his experiencbe = 15% tech knowledge + 15% process knowledge + 15% people knowledge + (50%+) political knowlegeIf the person who is recruting is basically technically not sound, and he knows that technical soundness is not of paramount importance - why waste time in that? I have had many first hand experiences like that when they recruit.And I do not believe some cities having more talented people from this. This is mega crap. Talent can come from anywhere.@Raja,Your list is very good and I guess it will be very effective. But then, I must say, when I visited your website (was inspired after reading your passage), I was disappointed. Your website itself show copyright of 2007 and it is not updated!@Sambarmuthy,You are dead on - though somewhat out of the scope of the main article. And yes, if young minds are given proper traning, a lot of children getting recruting into terror activities will be reduced.I love the discussion here :-)
If LTTE and other terrorist and militant outfits recruit young school-going children to their caders and train them to suit their purpose in challenging well-oiled regular army - though it is for a destructive purpose which no civilised person can ever think of approving - it shows that young brains can be trained and motivated to perform. The same concept appears to be applied in Adventnet for a constructive purpose which shows that when you catch them young. you can do wonders.The young talent they recruit and train is one who opts for it willingly and has no economic clout to afford the exorbitant cost of higher education and who may, otherwise,add up to the army of unemplyed and turn out to be a social problem. Viewed from that angle, what Adventnet is doing is a yeoman service to society which others may usefully emulate.
If LTTE and other terrorist and militant outfits recruit young school-going children to their caders and train them to suit their purpose in challenging well-oiled regular army - though it is for a destructive purpose which no civilised person can ever think of approving - it shows that young brains can be trained and motivated to perform. The same concept appears to be applied in Adventnet for a constructive purpose which shows that when you catch them young. you can do wonders.The young talent they recruit and train is one who opts for it willingly and has no economic clout to afford the exorbitant cost of higher education and who may, otherwise,add up to the army of unemplyed and turn out to be a social problem. Viewed from that angle, what Adventnet is doing is a yeoman service to society which others may usefully emulate.
sridhar,This is excellent. when i was pursuing my graduation, i have a thought of this why don't their be a separate college which trains a student on industry base standards. why? to study all these extra stuff which is very less applicable when we launch ourself in the s/w industry. surprisingly,here i have found some other who have similar thoughts.
sridhar,This is excellent. when i was pursuing my graduation, i have a thought of this why don't their be a separate college which trains a student on industry base standards. why? to study all these extra stuff which is very less applicable when we launch ourself in the s/w industry. surprisingly,here i have found some other who have similar thoughts.
@Omkar
I am not familiar with what tests are used.. But if they can be gamed so that they are useless (as you claim) then the IT majors (if they use such instruments) are stupid (I suspect not). All the research literature shows that cramming for SATs etc. has modest effects, at best. If one has a large heterogeneous pool of applicants, then tests will be useful in narrowing down the pool, regardless of misses or false positives. But for a small pool, it may not make much sense.Sridhar
I hear that TCSs "Project Ignite" (also based in chennai) attempts something similar with arts/science graduates. Perhaps starting at high school (3 years earlier) is an advantage. I wonder if geographical location (chennai, tamil nadu) may be a factor in the success of such a model.
@Omkar
I am not familiar with what tests are used.. But if they can be gamed so that they are useless (as you claim) then the IT majors (if they use such instruments) are stupid (I suspect not). All the research literature shows that cramming for SATs etc. has modest effects, at best. If one has a large heterogeneous pool of applicants, then tests will be useful in narrowing down the pool, regardless of misses or false positives. But for a small pool, it may not make much sense.Sridhar
I hear that TCSs "Project Ignite" (also based in chennai) attempts something similar with arts/science graduates. Perhaps starting at high school (3 years earlier) is an advantage. I wonder if geographical location (chennai, tamil nadu) may be a factor in the success of such a model.
Sridhar,Excellent post.Regarding marks given by the education system, you are dead on. Also, there is a huge disparity in % age of marks obtained in different regions of India, sometimes in excess of 20%~25%. This is no way to judge people. I have come across many people who have scored 95% in their mother tongue, 95% in English (I guess even Shakespear could not have done it!) and can not write or speak well. Actually, from some engineering colleges 80% above mark is just granted.@Sriram,Aptitude test is a joke in IT. Companies are recruiting based on puzzle/aptitude tests. And I know 90% of them cram S. Devi, G. Summers for the interview. If you go to the fundamentals, mostly you get a blank face. And also, by the time a company moves from one place to another (say Bangalore to Chennai), questions are already known in the campus!!Omkar
Sridhar,Excellent post.Regarding marks given by the education system, you are dead on. Also, there is a huge disparity in % age of marks obtained in different regions of India, sometimes in excess of 20%~25%. This is no way to judge people. I have come across many people who have scored 95% in their mother tongue, 95% in English (I guess even Shakespear could not have done it!) and can not write or speak well. Actually, from some engineering colleges 80% above mark is just granted.@Sriram,Aptitude test is a joke in IT. Companies are recruiting based on puzzle/aptitude tests. And I know 90% of them cram S. Devi, G. Summers for the interview. If you go to the fundamentals, mostly you get a blank face. And also, by the time a company moves from one place to another (say Bangalore to Chennai), questions are already known in the campus!!Omkar
When I have recruited for ControlCase (http://www.controlcase.com/), I never looked at his academic credentials. The following elements are the things that I looked into:Must have:
Understanding of concepts: Check the candidate whether he could understand well-enough which he claims to have been.
Explanation skill: Can he explain the things which he understood?
Problem solving through construction: If he does not know a concept, can he pick-up things when given hints?
Drive for quest: Does he wait for hints when stuck-up or he has passion for do-it-self?
Suitatability to Job profile: Does he have sufficient skills for the job that he applied?
Matching candidate aspirations: Does ControlCase match his aspirations of learning new technologies?
Sutability of pay-out: Is the candidate worth of his expectations monetarily?
Ethics: Does he follow ethics?Desirable:
Passion for experimenting: Does he have interest in experimenting new things?
Helping tendency in non-core: Can he help us in things which his job profile does not require?
Timing flexibility: Is he available as and when need arises?
Friendly Nature: Is he interested in collaborative environment?
Adjustable mentality: Can he adjust with our facilities if we can't provide of his choice?
Minimal dependency: Can he take initiatives way-forward or waits for assistance?
Long-sighted philosophy: Does he want to collaborate with ControlCase for short-term or long-term?Thanks,
Raja
When I have recruited for ControlCase (http://www.controlcase.com/), I never looked at his academic credentials. The following elements are the things that I looked into:Must have:
Understanding of concepts: Check the candidate whether he could understand well-enough which he claims to have been.
Explanation skill: Can he explain the things which he understood?
Problem solving through construction: If he does not know a concept, can he pick-up things when given hints?
Drive for quest: Does he wait for hints when stuck-up or he has passion for do-it-self?
Suitatability to Job profile: Does he have sufficient skills for the job that he applied?
Matching candidate aspirations: Does ControlCase match his aspirations of learning new technologies?
Sutability of pay-out: Is the candidate worth of his expectations monetarily?
Ethics: Does he follow ethics?Desirable:
Passion for experimenting: Does he have interest in experimenting new things?
Helping tendency in non-core: Can he help us in things which his job profile does not require?
Timing flexibility: Is he available as and when need arises?
Friendly Nature: Is he interested in collaborative environment?
Adjustable mentality: Can he adjust with our facilities if we can't provide of his choice?
Minimal dependency: Can he take initiatives way-forward or waits for assistance?
Long-sighted philosophy: Does he want to collaborate with ControlCase for short-term or long-term?Thanks,
Raja
what about the IQ/aptitude tests that many of the big firms use? Perhaps the reason why these are used is because they don't trust college grades? Similarly there are scores of entrance exams for various colleges. Here they don't trust the school grades. Your selection process is critical, as is the training. Perhaps the lack of time wasting in college makes a difference in the (ultimate) productivity of these kids who are tutored in your internal university. Look forward to your follow ups on this topic.
what about the IQ/aptitude tests that many of the big firms use? Perhaps the reason why these are used is because they don't trust college grades? Similarly there are scores of entrance exams for various colleges. Here they don't trust the school grades. Your selection process is critical, as is the training. Perhaps the lack of time wasting in college makes a difference in the (ultimate) productivity of these kids who are tutored in your internal university. Look forward to your follow ups on this topic.
hi sridhar, this is not the first time you have mentioned about your recruiting process, and i congratulate you for re-programming your mindset, especially when you yourself is alumni of a premium institution.however i'm wondering whether or not other companies would be able to take advantage of AdventNet University? i.e. if i'm planning a new startup, would you let me hire candidates from your university? its a novel idea and i would like to support it but because of constraint and lack of resources it would be great if i can hire people who come from a background where they would have been marginalized if not sheltered under your umbrella university. this will open-up a new trend in recruiting process, may be a whole new industry ... what you say? you may reply directly to my email address. thanks
hi sridhar, this is not the first time you have mentioned about your recruiting process, and i congratulate you for re-programming your mindset, especially when you yourself is alumni of a premium institution.however i'm wondering whether or not other companies would be able to take advantage of AdventNet University? i.e. if i'm planning a new startup, would you let me hire candidates from your university? its a novel idea and i would like to support it but because of constraint and lack of resources it would be great if i can hire people who come from a background where they would have been marginalized if not sheltered under your umbrella university. this will open-up a new trend in recruiting process, may be a whole new industry ... what you say? you may reply directly to my email address. thanks